Ingrid Edstrom
Editor's Note: This is the first podcast in a new series featuring the "2016 Most Powerful Women in Accounting."
In the first podcast from our series featuring the "Most Powerful Women in Accounting 2016," Joe Woodard speaks with Ingrid Edstrom. Ingrid has received numerous awards and recognitions over the years, including "Top 40 Under 40," "2016 Most Powerful Women in Accounting" and Insightful Accountant’s "2016 Top 100 ProAdvisor."
A passionate believer in building online communities, her successes and innovations with networking also have earned Ingrid recognition in Intuit’s "2015 Firm of the Future" contest.
During this episode we will drill down on the benefits and strategies of networking and community building, both online and face to face.
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Thank you for tuning in to this episode of the "Scaling New Heights Podcast."
Full transcript of the episode follows:
Thank you for tuning into this episode of the Scaling New Heights Podcast. For the next month, we'll focus on a few of CPA Practice Advisor’s "2016 Most Powerful Women in Accounting" category.
These awards were handed out recently at QuickBooks Connect in San Jose, Calif. We want to feature the strength of these women in the industry by hearing their thoughts and their perspectives. The editor-in-chief of CPA Practice Advisor, Gail Perry, said that these leaders “are setting new standards for professionalism within accounting, and are shaping the profession through their work as partners, mentors, innovators and thought leaders.”
I agree wholeheartedly with that statement.
During this episode, we'll talk with Ingrid Edstrom, one of the "2016 Most Powerful Women in Accounting." Our conversation with Ingrid and this entire podcast series is made possible by the generosity of our partners SmartBiz Loans, Entryless and Neat.
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Let me tell you a bit about our guest today. Ingrid is a self-professed bookkeeping nerd and is the CEO of Polymath LLC. in Ashland, Ore. She loves taking topics that most small business owners put on a scale from boring to terrifying and turning them into a fun and rewarding part of entrepreneurship.
Ingrid is the creator AskABookkeeper.com, an online education series, a member of Profit First Professionals, a member of the Intuit Trainer/Writer Network, founder of the Southern Oregon Bookkeepers Association, and leader of the Southern Oregon Woodard Group. She was recently recognized as one of the accounting professional’s "Top 40 Under 40" and as one of the "Most Powerful Women in Accounting."
Now before I bring Ingrid onto the call today, I want to thank another of our Podcast Partners, Entryless. Entryless provides automated bill pay and processing. It seamlessly integrates with cloud solutions that are a must have for your firm and for your clients.
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Today’s topic is on networking, and I want to quickly restate the three pillars of Intuit’s "Firm of the Future." The first pillar is to add value as a trusted advisor with your client through pro-active behavior, that is through forward-looking analytics and measurements and then value price accordingly.
All of that is pillar one. That means if you're adding value, you can stop trading hours for dollars, you can stop being considered as overhead by your clients, and you can become an agent of small business transformation. It is Woodard’s mission to empower you to be an agent of small business transformation.
And it is our vision to transform all small businesses – that’s big, it’s a big hairy audacious goal. It is our goal through the tens of thousands of you to transform all small business and that means we must empower you to do that. And all of that is toward this goal, this first pillar. And in value pricing, you price a percentage under the wealth you generate for the client not a percentage over the cost you incur.
The second pillar of the "Firm of the Future" is to get online. Get online is not just with your accounting solution, like QBO, or even just with the products that integrate with QuickBooks. It is about collaborating with your clients while you are on line, so make sure the products you’re adopting facilitate not just the bookkeeping process, but the entire of the client relationship. Collaborative solutions, like Slack or Microsoft’s new product called Teams, is a great way to interact with your clients dynamically.
Then, you’ve got the third pillar. The third pillar of the "Firm of the Future" is get connected and that means building communities around your distinctive qualities as a professional and as a firm.
Now let's get to the conversation with Ingrid, because Ingrid agrees completely about the power of building online communities. She, like me, is a big advocate of Intuit’s "Firm of the Future" and the entire concept behind it. But we're going to take a little bit of a twist here on community building.
Even though Ingrid sees the importance of online communities – and even though she is engaged there - Ingrid says that face to face networking is critical to community building. So, let's get into that conversation with Ingrid. Ingrid, welcome to the podcast!
Ingrid: Hi, Joe. Thanks so much for this opportunity.
Joe: It’s great to have you here. I want to jump straight into my first question for you. I know face to face networking interaction is a big deal for you and I know that it's been a cornerstone of the way that you've built and the way you sustain your practice. So why is networking an important part of a complete business strategy for accounting firms or maybe for our clients as well? Why is it so important?
Ingrid: Absolutely. Yes, it is definitely important for both accounting firms and our clients. The important thing to remember is that marketing is all about communication. There's a lot of emphasis as we look around ourselves in our marketing messages – the advertising on just sell-sell sell, buy-buy-buy - but really the core fundamental of marketing is that it's all about communication and communication is about connection – real, true, valuable connection with other people.
The reason that we're all here on this world is to learn and grow with our relationships with other living things, whether those things be people, animals, plants, whatever the case may be. We are all here to connect. If we focus on those relationships rather than just sell-sell-sell we're going to have much deeper and more valuable relationships and when I say more valuable, I do also mean more profitable.
Focusing on building relationships that are founded in the three pillars of networking - which is know, like and trust - making sure that those deeper relationships have meat to them rather than just seeing things out there and deciding to buy something. That's what's really important. In order to build those relationships, you've got to put yourself out there.
You've got to be willing to help other people and make yourself a resource in your chosen community. Those communities can be local, they can stretch beyond your clients, they can be online. It can be a variety of communities. The important thing is that it's more than just visibility online.
Joe: You mentioned an acronym – Know … Trust. What was the middle one?
Ingrid: Know Like and Trust.
Joe: Know, Like, Trust. Can you drill down on know, like and trust for us?
Ingrid: Absolutely. Generally, with networking relationships, in order to develop those relationships into profitable relationships, there's a series that we have to go through. I learned about this through my networking relationships in BNI, which is Business Network International. What we like to call the V.C.P. process – visibility, credibility, profitability.
To really develop your network - to develop relationships that are going to become profitable relationships - you have to start by putting yourself out there by being visible, by having people notice you, getting your card out there, getting your name out there having people say, “Oh,
Joe. That’s that guy who does that Woodard thing. Yeah, we know about him.” There’s your visibility, but oftentimes people need to see things seven times or more before it clicks and they start to understand that that might be something that's useful to them.
The next step is wanting to build up credibility. Credibility is your reputation. Making sure that you are getting information out there that has meat behind it so that people can hear more than just your name and what you do.
Oftentimes, it's going to be people that they already know, like, and trust who are talking about you and getting testimonials out there. Sometimes it's things like, “Oh, Joe. I heard that he puts on this fantastic accounting conference. Maybe I should check that out.” You know, something that has more weight behind it – “Oh, wow. This person is doing big things.” - will get more attention than just putting your name out there.
And then the third tier is profitability. That's when those relationships have gotten deep enough or people have gotten to know you well enough and you've built up your reputation enough that those relationships become profitable. They turn into referrals, they turn into the people that are hearing about you buying things, but also the people who have purchased from you referring you to other people. It's a warm introduction and that's the focus on profitable relationships.
The important thing is that all of this takes time. It doesn't happen overnight. This is something that is so much more profound than just placing a newspaper ad or putting your name in the phonebook or putting up a website. That's all visibility. For the most part, those kind of advertising mechanisms stay at visibility unless you do something more to build your reputation and get yourself out there more than just placing the ad. Placing the ad isn't good enough anymore. People want real connection with their service providers and even with their colleagues.
Joe: Ingrid, you just hit the nail on the head, because I think you've drawn one of the key distinctions here between online community building and real relationship building. That's what I heard you say in your first answer and that was the key to it. That face to face peer networking is intense relationship building.
Well if I'm in an online environment, if I'm in a general open forum, if I am on Twitter, if I'm on LinkedIn, I can get people to know me. I can create awareness and that’s at the heart of Firm of the Future. They're treating that “get connected” as a modernized, future-looking marketing tool over traditional marketing methodologies. Intuit recognizes it's primarily about being known. I would even go so far as to say that if I manage online community building well, I might even endear people to me. I might even accomplish some of your “like” goal, not all of it as you describe it, but I might get a little bit into those waters. But it's very, very hard if it's possible at all to create true trust; not trust that you know your topic or that you can answer a question well. I would put that back in the “know” category. But relationship, human to human trust-based relationship? Nearly impossible, if not impossible in a virtual world. And that's why I think you're so passionate about that face to face.
Now you are passionate about it. Tell us how you got into it, what burst that passion, and what has been the impact of this sort of intense networking on your practice?
Ingrid: Absolutely. Well, when I first started Polymath back in 2008, I knew plenty about bookkeeping and very little about being a self-employed professional. I took the jump into starting my own accounting practice and I had no clue where to find my first client. It was right at the end of 2008 so 2008 was fairly negligible. In 2009, I did some work for friends and family. I know we're talking to accountants, so I'm going to give you the numbers, because of course everyone wants the numbers. In 2009, I made about ten thousand bucks. So, not terrible for a first year in business. I didn't totally tank it.
But 2010 was when one of my brand-new clients that I had managed to find miraculously through an ad that I placed - the only one I ever got through advertising – introduced me to BNI, which is Business Network International.
And I joined BNI in February of 2010. With my relationships in BNI … The really neat thing about BNI specifically is that it's not just about the networking, it’s about the education and I would say if there is one thing, just one thing, that separates the business owners that are happy and thriving versus just surviving, if surviving, it's that those entrepreneurs, those business owners put a lot of focus on their investment into their own personal growth and education. Ongoing education is the key to having a thriving business rather than just a surviving business
Joe: Where there's an investment, there's a return. No investment, no return. And what you're saying is, “I was just starting out I was I was in a position where every single penny mattered but I was willing to make the investment.” I think in your case as just starting your practice I would even say incur the risk of an investment like that of time and energy, in the belief that it would make a significant difference and it definitely seems it has right.
You mentioned BNI. What are some of the other networks that people can get involved in out there?
Ingrid: I want hop back really quick to the investment piece, because I think there’s a piece there that that would be really helpful to people.
I would definitely recommend networking for people who are getting started in their practice as a really great way to get going. In addition to that, as far as that investment goes, keeping in mind that as you are just getting started - you know the old adage, “You’ve got to spend money to make money.” - keep in mind your budget and make sure that you're not stretching past what you can.
Really weigh the cost benefit analysis of your marketing strategies and don't go throwing money down the pipes of ads and phone books and things like that, because all of those things they have visibility. You've got to focus on the long game and developing relationships and that's that key place of as accountants, we've got to get out from behind our computers and talk to people.
Joe: You're absolutely right. Now you just mentioned BNI as an example of something you called a hard group. I've heard you say before that you classified networks in four different classifications you said social, soft, hard, and professional. Can you describe what you mean by that and can you give us some examples of other kinds of networking groups that our phones can join?
Ingrid: Absolutely. Social or civic networks are things like Rotary, Elks, Kiwanis, church. Things where you're there for a social or a civic community focused purpose; you're not necessarily very for business networking. Of course, you're going to meet people and sometimes those relationships turn into business relationships. You can meet other professionals in those arenas. And it's important to ask ourselves what networks are you already present in that you could be leveraging more to deepen those relationships and take them into a new arena. How many people do you already know that you might be able to develop more effective business relationships with?
And then soft networks would be like our local Chamber of Commerce. Local chamber, if you’ve never been to a chamber meeting before, is in just about every community. Business owners can go, you can become a member. The main thing is that pretty much anybody can join your local chamber of commerce, so there might be five other accountants in the room who you’re in direct competition with, even if it's very friendly, healthy competition.
Hard networks are like BNI. The main thing that distinguishes those is that there's only one person per professional classification in each chapter of the organization. When I was in BNI, I was the only bookkeeper in the chapter.
We also had a C.P.A. in the chapter, but I don't do tax. He and I weren't in competition. His office had bookkeepers on staff, but once I built up my reputation with him and with them, his bookkeepers were calling me and asking questions, because they were on staff bookkeepers just doing data entry kinds of things. They recognized that I was more of a management accountant, really advising my clients on these bigger picture pieces and they didn't know a thing about QuickBooks Online. So, we were able to build up really healthy referral relationships between us where we weren't focused on competition.
My favorite type of networking group are the professional groups. These are the ones that really take competition completely out of the equation, because it's just a group of that exclusive profession. That is what I love about the Woodard Network. And thank you so much, Joe, for building that for us.
Joe: Any time.
Ingrid: In professional organizations, it's really about collaboration instead of competition. How can we work together to raise each other up? Because the more we work to help each other … Rising tide raises all ships. Each of us has a slightly different business model, a slightly different target markets. We have particular clients that we absolutely love and we're focusing on value pricing and making sure that we've got the deep relationships with the clients that we're really going to love, and we're not constantly taking on all comers. It creates a situation where we can refer back and forth to each other, ensuring that each of us only ever works with our absolute favorite client relationships. And that is what's really important.
Joe: What I've learned about reciprocity is sometimes it's A to B & B to A and sometimes it's highly measurable. Usually whenever you're trying to do that and keep the scales balanced, you're kind of forcing the situation. You're never more than the sum of your parts. The best kind of reciprocity I've seen is where you're not speaking directly something back - and I'm reading this is kind of how you roll –
Ingrid: Yep.
Joe: - that you're not seeking something back directly from that, you're putting it into the community and you know that just give it some time and either the community will take care of you or probably, what's most likely, is the community's already taking care of you disproportionally to what you put back in anyway, because that rising tide raising all the ships means that there is more opportunity on the receiving side than there is on the giving side. It's a more than some of the parts equation.
Now when you're in these kinds of networking environments, there are some pitfalls. I've heard some people say that it can be a time drain or there can be strained relationships or whatever. You’ve spent a lot of time on this. What are some of the pitfalls and how can folks avoid them?
Ingrid: Some of the main pitfalls to avoid when you are talking with a group of people and getting to know them, it's important to understand who you're talking to and avoid general uncomfortable topics. Particularly with your online relationships – you know many of us at this point have Facebook and Twitter pages – it's important to make sure that you are putting a professional face forward, recognizing that part of that professional face is what differentiates you as a person and makes you special without offending other people. There's a nice fine line.
Damien Greathead actually really put his finger on it for me at "Scaling New Heights" in 2015. He said, “Find your echo chamber. Find the people with whom your message resonates.” For me, that means putting my whole self out there, but at the same time that pitfall… I can put my whole self out there without blasting my religious and political views on Facebook. That's going to alienate certain people that in a business arena I'm actually connected with well.
Joe: I want to pause you right there, because I know you have some other pitfalls you want to talk about, but I want to comment that to not speak in certain environments about your political or religious inclinations or some other cause that's very important to you, doesn't mean that you are betraying your convictions. It just means that all communication must follow the principles of “time, turf and tone”.
If it's not the right time and not right turf – and professional networking environments are seldom the right turf for polarizing conversations, if ever – and then you've got tone… I would add in there too, if it's not baked into a dialogue where you're doing more listening than you are speaking, then you're not communicating anyway. You're just making points and you might as well go buy a billboard someplace if you just want to make a point.
Just remember time, turf, and tone when it comes to any kind of polarizing conversation and that'll help you with your networking. Now, I’m going to leave you alone. Go ahead with your other pitfalls.
Ingrid: So the next one is - we touched on it earlier as far as the investment - time vs money. Networking can take a lot of time and as far as the different types of networks – social, soft, hard, and professional networks - pick and choose. We only have two hands and 24 hours in a day.
Hopefully, you're sleeping for a good eight of those and focusing on client work for a good chunk of the rest. Make sure that you're budgeting how much time you're working in your business and how much time you're working on your business, because networking – if not done with good boundaries and healthy communication – can end up taking over quite a bit.
So, pick and choose which opportunities you want to take advantage of any given point. Recognize that it doesn't have to be forever. Saying, “Hey, I'm going to try chamber for a year” doesn't mean that you've got to do chamber forever and ever more
It comes back to knowing ourselves deeply enough and understanding what's a fit and what's not. There may be something that is a fit for a time and then that shifts and that's OK. Understand what your commitments are what you've agreed to and try not to overcommit and make sure that you understand how much time that you can really put into anything.
The last pitfall that I want to touch on is making sure that you really actually do “know, like, and trust” people before getting into solid referral relationships with them. The analogy that I like to use is don't hand the keys to your house to a complete stranger.
Whenever we give a referral we tie our reputation to that referral and if it turns out that that referral doesn't pan out, whether because maybe the person that we referred this trusted client, friend, family member to just doesn't follow up and they drop the ball, that reflects poorly on us. But down the line if it develops into a relationship and that person does a poor job that can reflect poorly and affect our relationship with the person that we gave the referral to.
So, it's important to understand, both giving and receiving, be patient and make sure that you're really developing those relationships and trusting the person to deeper level like we were talking about.
Joe: We've just got a few more minutes and I want to land the balloon a little bit here. What can the listeners of this podcast episode do right now? What are your tips as a master networker for them to get engaged in networking communities?
Ingrid: I think the first big thing is make sure you're focusing on building relationships that are based on helping others, not just selling. Marketing is all about communication. Communication is all about connection with others. Focusing on those relationships and putting yourself out there in the community - whether it be your local community or a greater global community or an online community, however that may be – focus on helping others. What can you contribute and create that rising tide? As you're creating that rising tide, make sure that you're focused on not just giving but also being open to receiving.
In the book, "The Go Giver" by Bob Burg and John David Mann, they talk about the “Five Laws of Stratospheric Success”, the fifth of which is the Law of Receptivity, which is slightly different than the Law of reciprocity that you were talking about earlier, Joe- what goes around comes around.
The Law of Receptivity states that in order to effectively give and help others, we have to be open to receiving. As business owners and entrepreneurs, oftentimes we block that flow. We think that in order to really give of ourselves and help our clients, we have to darn near murders ourselves in the process. That doesn’t actually work. We have to be open to receiving the abundance that we're working so hard for.
So, as we are giving and raising up the ships around us we have to be open to being raised up in turn. You can't anchor yourself to the bottom of the ocean. It doesn't work.
Joe: I like that. And I think there's a certain trust when I'm hearing you say that undercurrent really from the first question to the last question. There's a certain trust that we need to have in our fellow human being that is core to successful networking.
For those of you who have not read it, I strongly recommend reading Stephen M. R. Covey’s The Speed of Trust, because the principles there are very harmonious with Ingrid has been saying here about relationship building and trust building. It doesn't mean that you're blind. Ingrid already said the know and the like may change as you get to know a person better, the like may change the trust may definitely change.
But if there’s an instinctive trust that you place in relationships with human beings – philosophically, generally, universally and you understand that two people, three people, ten people are greater than the sum of their parts – if you walk in on that premise, then what Ingrid has experienced and what Ingrid is challenging you to do will come to fruition. I've seen it over and over again.
Ingrid, I could keep talking about this, especially some of these principles of human relationships with you – maybe a future podcast would be great for that – but I do have to close out here. I want to say thank you so much, Ingrid, for being on the pod cast with us. Great, great thoughts. It's been great having you here.
Ingrid: Thank you so much. This was a lot of fun.
Joe: Thank you for tuning in to today's podcast and our interview with Ingrid Edstrom. Before I say goodbye, I'd like to thank our final Podcast Partner, Neat. Neat provides highly innovative automation technology software that extracts data from both emailed and scanned documents, regardless of the type of scanner you use, regardless of the type of document you place onto that scanner.
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For more information about today's episode, to explore other episodes in this podcast series or to learn more about our annual conference visit Woodard.com.
As always, we encourage to stay tuned, stay connected, never stop learning and scale new heights.